Somehow I find this entire thread and replies disturbing. Notably in the fact that not one reply has questioned this idea that "country comes before all, except maybe God in particular circumstances".
Maybe it's the fact that I come from Australia where this insane level of patriotism isn't drilled into us from the moment we're born, maybe it's just the fact that I am a skeptic. I cannot see any justifiable reason for me joining the army. It's not that I have a theoretical problem with dying for a cause I believe in (theoretical meaning that in practice maybe I'm a coward - I can't know), I don't particularly believe in pacifism, the idea of killing people for a truly worthwhile cause isn't all that abhorrent (theoretically...), but I don't see how killing an equally scared grunt on the other side who is also only there because of the equally good patriotic propoganda machine in their own country (or more likely in the case of USA's targets directly defending their family) is a worthy cause. And as for the only people for whom dying could make a difference to the planet, their death wouldn't really make a difference in the long term as others just as psychotic would step up. The only thing that could really affect Osama Bin Laden or George Bush, or the protagonists in any other conflict is a conscience, and sadly they are hard to come by.

That said I don't have a problem with the way some Scandinavian countries (I believe) have post college enforced public service of one form or another, one option being the military, or a desk clerk type thing, for a couple of years, and that sounds okay although I don't know a lot in detail.

it is also true that for some less academically minded people who don't have any real direction the Army and grunt training is good for them and their self esteem etc - I'm not saying there's no benefits either, but...

In short the idea of public service to make your country a better place is good, I'm all for that type of patriotism, but I don't see why it has to involve the turning of someone else's country into a version of hell.

El "preparing to be banned for daring to suggest the US which insists it should be exempt from the international criminal court might not be God's chosen country and the greatest thing that ever has been" Fishski