> Somehow I find this entire thread and replies
>disturbing. Notably in the fact that not one
>reply has questioned this idea that "country comes
>before all, except maybe God in particular
>circumstances".

Perhaps the reason nobody has responded that way is because nobody has yet asserted that. If that's how you read Gortman's post, then ok, but that's not how I read it. Basically, he's saying every man should serve his country. Well, I believe that in general, this is true. I completely disagree with the way he goes about justifying his apparent believe that military service is the most admirable or most desireable way to do this, however.

And personally, in the normal course of events, I don't think much about "serving my country." I figure I serve my country just fine by paying my taxes and not joining the Taliban. If I'm ever called to serve in the military, I'll go. If we have a large scale, protracted war, I'll most likely join up to serve. I *do* love my country, but I don't put it above all else at all times. 90% of the time, I come first. But as Sam pointed out, serving yourself is, in many cases, a way of serving your country.


> In short the idea of public service to make your
>country a better place is good, I'm all for that
>type of patriotism, but I don't see why it has to
>involve the turning of someone else's country into
>a version of hell.

Seems to me nobody here was suggesting that. In fact, if you'd actually read the posts, you'd realize that most of us are agreeing with you that it's patently ridiculous for "every able bodied man" to join the army. Nobody is seriously suggesting that War is Good and that everyone should join the army so that we can have more wars. In fact, Stephen's post sums up things quite nicely. Wars aren't what made us great.

But let me ask you this. If Osama's men had flown a plane into the Sydney Opera House and a couple of large buildings in your country and killed thousands of Australians, how do you think you would have reacted? Do you think Australians would have been content to sit back and say "Well, that sucked. But let's not try to go find the people who did this, as that might mean some of us would die, or we might have to kill some other people. Worse, some innocent people might be accidentally hit! That would be terrible. Let's just sit here."

I don't. There's one thing your country and my country share, and that's a common heritage. We're both former British colonies. And if there's one thing I've seen proven time and again it's that Brits and those "descended" from them are the fiercest fighters in the world when it comes time to defend themselves. No, I think if Australia was the big dog on the block and *you* had been hit rather than us, you'd have responded much the same way we did.


>
> El "preparing to be banned for daring to suggest
>the US which insists it should be exempt from the
>international criminal court might not be God's
>chosen country and the greatest thing that ever
>has been" Fishski

Now you're just being antagonistic. There's any number of reasons we're refusing to join the international court, but I don't think any of them have anything to do with us being God's chosen country. Hell, I don't even believe in God, so I certainly don't think we're God's chosen country or any BS like that. I *do* think we're the greatest country on Earth, but hell, I live here, I'm biased. There's no doubt we're the strongest militarily. There's little doubt that our economy (at least until recently) was the strongest and most stable. But when it comes down to saying "The US is the greatest nation in the world" I base that on one simple fact--there's no other place I'd rather live. And judging by the number of immigrants we get each year, a lot of people agree with me.

-- Dave