> > > > > > So I pose the question back to you: is it possible to be "truly loving" without God? What's the *point*? Why even bother, when the alternative is to know the One who does know love like that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And that's my point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Basicly what I'm tring to say is that Human Nature is were God truly comes from. More impressive to me than any idea of an omnipotiant being who can do anything he wants to is that humans, a fragil conflicted and often confussed species has visited the moon, sent satalites out of our solar system, and we're still going. We keep reaching, we thrive under pressure. Did you ever see the Truman Show? I think humanity is getting to the point were we are standing at the door, ready to set out on our own, and we have to decide if we want to stay with our over protective father or be free. The religious refrences in that movie are many (the guy who is incharge of the show is called The Creator, he 'cues the sun', and he talks to Truman out of the sky. In any family one day the children leave the nest, if God is our father onr day we will have to strike out on our own.
> > > >
> > > > Please. God *created* the moon, not to mention the rest of the universe. Reaching the moon hardly seems a great feat compared to what He did.
> > > >
> > > > The director wasn't exactly benevolent. He intentionally damaged Truman's phyche, forcing phobias to take over much of his life. He killed the guy's father to keep him from getting away, for Pete's sake. Maybe Truman's journey to the outside world is something we can acheive only by death, but I don't pretend to know. We know [well, some of us] that there's something beyond this world. It's been no secret to us. We don't generally try to hasten our passage, rather we try to prepare for it and let God decide when it's time.
> > > >
> > > > >Spider-ok, I kinda changed the topic but thats what I wanted to say-Boy
> > > >
> > > > I think I just changed it again... not sure.
> > > >
> > > > Chr"no stranger to theological debates... or any debate where I didn't know what I was talkling about"is
> > >
> > > Human Nature is where God comes from. Hmmmmm.... isn't that a little like saying that the sun comes from light? or that cows come from milk?
> > >
> > > Faw"A little reversal is in order"cett
> > I think the argumant is more like Chicken and the Egg, you can't have one with out the other first. What would God be with out Humans?
> >
> > Spider-ifRevelationsishowGodplansonendingthegame
> > oflifeIcan'tsayI'mforit,hecouldendexitanceina
> > singlemomoentwithouttheHorsemenandthepainand
> > stuff,muchmorelovingly-Boy
>
> ah, but one of the points of the end of the world as seen in Revelation is to give humans who aren't following him a chance to see his power and follow him. if he ended it in an instance, it would be kaputz for them, too
>
> uni"been reading the left behind series"peg

If God knows everything that will happen, he knows which ones would turn to Him and he wouldn't have to do anything (technically if he knows everything then all of realty has no real purpose, he knows who is going to be evil and who won't before we're even born)

Spider-sowhenarethemeeksupposedtoinheirittheearth?-Boy