This has been a very interesting discussion. I just thought I'd add a comment to clarify what I believe, as it apparently came across a little strangely earlier. It sounds like I'm on the same page as Wedge. For the most part, I agree with everybody who's posted here so far, in one way or another. I do have a few problems with the way the Catholic Church is run, but I certainly don't mean this as if to criticize anyone here personally. Of course, theological squabbles over denominational differences aren't going to make the difference between someone going to heaven or hell. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and your Lord and Savior? Yes? Good. :-) Let's continue...

Matthew 23 sticks out at me. Jesus is speaking to the crowds, condemning the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. In verses 5-7 (NIV): "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'"

A lot of ministers have this problem, Catholics and Protestants alike. The word may not be "Rabbi," but it's "Reverend," or "Very Reverend," or "Bishop," or something else silly like that. Respect, of course, is due these ministers, but some titles are just presumptuous. I stick with a more humble set of titles like "Pastor," "Brother," or just plain "sir." Spiffy pastoral robes likewise bother me. Why does a minister have to wear a robe with tassles and that goofy sash thing? It's like the garments described above. I appreciate ministers who preach in ordinary suits. Tasteful, respectful, and yet not at all haughty.

Jesus continues (verses 8-10)... "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ."

One could argue that in verse 9, Jesus is only talking metaphorically about God the Father in comparison to earthly human fathers. But when you look at the context of the passage, it should be perfectly clear that Jesus has instructed us not to call our ministers "Rabbi," "Teacher," or "Father." The first two I don't hear very often, but the third I do. It's a distinctly Catholic title, and one of my biggest gripes about Catholicism. Sure, it's not going to send anyone to hell, but it seems to be a rather blatant disobediance of this instruction from Jesus.

I'd like to jump to Colossians, Chapter 2. There's a lot in here. Starting with verse 8: "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." This passage applies to a lot of different worldviews. Immediately atheism, religious plurality, and the New Age are brought to my mind. I don't think Catholicism falls entirely into this category. But Catholicism *does* rely heavily on human tradition. More so than other "flavors" of Christianity, at any rate. Every church has elements of tradition. But as the amount of that tradition increases, the amount of focus on Christ must proportionally decrease -- as we are creatures of habit, rituals usually separate us from the newness and personal experiences of God. Maybe not everyone, but a lot of people are like this. I know I am. Again, nobody's going to hell from following too many traditions, but it's another point that concerns me about not only Catholics but Christians in general.

Earlier TOM raised the question of what I meant by living without rules. I do agree that we must have rules, and the Ten Commandments are certainly no exception. But as we read further in Colossians 3 (verses 13-15), we get to the point I was trying to make... "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Jesus fulfilled the Law!

I'm going to jump down now, but don't think I'm reading out of context. Feel free to read the whole chapter if you think I'm skipping around too much. I'm just trying to save space. Verses 20-23: "Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 'Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!'? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence." The word "sensual" here, of course, not meaning strictly SEX, but anything that would appeal to the senses. Basically, the fleshly desires of our sinful nature. At any rate, this is what I meant by not needing rules.

Before Christ fulfilled the Law, righteousness was the only way to heaven, accomplished by observing the Law. This was nearly impossible to do. But as Romans 3:21-25... "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood." Therefore, we are made righteous in God's eyes through our faith. This has nothing to do with obeying rules, not even the Ten Commandments.

Galatians 3:10-13... "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.' Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'The righteous will live by faith.' The las is not based on faith; on the contrary, 'The man who does these things will live by them.' Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.'"

To wrap up this point, let's look at 1 Corinthians 10:23. "'Everything is permissible' -- but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible' -- but not everything is constructive." And as 1 Thessalonians 4 says, we live our lives to please God. In other words, we avoid sin. By doing this, we end up following the law. But from this perspective, the law isn't just a written list of regulations for us to be bound by. Instead, it's a list of things we happen to be doing anyway. Our main focus, the thing driving us to act the way we do, is not the law. It's God! We want to please Him and choose not to sin. When our lifestyle is bound by regulations, we fall into legalism, which is very much the opposite of grace.

Again, this has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. I'm just ranting about theology. I can hardly believe how long this message is, but I had a lot to say and I hope I've made myself clear. If not, please let me know. And I just want to reiterate that I hold everyone in the highest respect. My struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. If none of those describes you, you're not my enemy. :-)

-useless"Um, it's 2:00 in the morning. Maybe I should go to bed now..."ness