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Re: Techno Hindu Mantras? Okaaaayy....
Posted By: Lucy, Daughter of Eve, on host 200.80.46.10
Date: Friday, March 21, 2003, at 15:58:37
In Reply To: Re: Techno Hindu Mantras? Okaaaayy.... posted by Fuzzpilz on Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 04:05:21:

> > Brunnen-"elves have TONS of religion"G
> >
>
> [geek mode]
> I'm not entirely sure that all of what they have
can really be called religion. Religion is based
on belief; if one actually knew God or whatever
existed instead of just believing it, one
wouldn't be religious, one would be
acknowledging a simple, clear, open fact. And
the Elves know the Valar and Maiar exist; most
of them haven't been to Aman personally
(although there are a few among them that
have, for example Galadriel), but I should
think that sufficiently many of them were there
during the War of Wrath (at the end of the First
Age) for the rest to be convinced that they're
telling the truth.
> However, the whole Ilúvatar thing can very
well be seen as religion; the only ones who
know he exists (or say so, at any rate) are the
original Ainur themselves. (This was rather
obvious in Númenor, where there was also
the problem that humans die eventually,
adding the element of tradition)
> [/geek mode]

I think I'd definitely classify what the elves have
as religion because of their songs. They
praise Ilúvatar and Elbereth. You don't praise
a fact because a fact was created (believe
what you will: mother nature or divine
influence). Ilúvatar had always been, he was
the creator. Just because they know for
certain that the Valar and Maiar exist does not
mean that they are dismissed as just fact.
Besides Tolkien was a known catholic, and
wether intentional or not, what he believed and
what was a part of him came out in what he
wrote.

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