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Re: Thoughts on freedom
Posted By: Sam, on host 207.180.184.14
Date: Monday, October 26, 1998, at 16:38:12
In Reply To: Thoughts on freedom posted by Issachar on Monday, October 26, 1998, at 14:39:55:

I'm not entirely certain where you are presenting
alternative views and where you are presenting your
own. Nonetheless, I don't think this issue is
nearly as complicated as it's made out to be.

Firstly, before I address the issue of freedom with
respect to God, let me redefine it. Freedom is
not the ability to do what we please. It's the
right to do what we ought. That's misunderstood
so often, and in today's society where responsibility
is so often shirked, it's not a popular definition,
either. But that's what it means. It's a free
country. That doesn't mean we can go shoot people
if we want to, or commit adultery, for example.
We don't have the legal right to do one or the moral
right to do either; nevertheless, we are still free,
because these are not things we *ought* to do.
A society that isn't free has social or legal
constraints that prevent us from doing things
we *ought* to do (or compel us to do things
we oughtn't).

Now, to discuss freedom with respect to God, yes,
I believe we have free will independent from God's
will. God does not control our every action. If
he did, we could hardly be held accountable for
our actions by Him. God gave us free will, and
we can use it to accept him or reject him, among
other things. "Free will," as distinct from "freedom,"
is sort of what "freedom" is so often misunderstood
to be -- the ability to do whatever we wish. This
is a liberating virtue to be given, for we may
volunteer our love and loyalty, which means far
more than if we were compelled to grant it. But
it's also a dangerous virtue, because we may reject
God, destroy others, and destroy ourselves.

I don't believe in predestination or fate. We are
not inextricably bound to some course, doomed to
meet some preordained fate. We have the choice to
make our future what we will. However, this is a
paradox when one considers that God knows everything,
including the future. God knows what decisions you
will make, and the paradox is, if that's so, aren't
you bound to make them?

Not at all. Just because God *knows* what you will
do, doesn't mean you didn't/won't decide to do it.
Suppose you built a time machine (and we will neatly
skip the details of how). You jump ahead an hour
into the future, and you see your friend at a vending
machine, and he deliberates before finally choosing
a $100 Grand bar. Then you go back in time, back to
where you left. You *know* your friend is going to
pick a $100 Grand bar from the vending machine.
You *know* it. Unless you actively intervene to
persuade him to make a different choice, he's going
to choose that $100 Grand bar. But does that mean
he doesn't have free will? Does that mean someone
besides him made that choice for him? Does that
mean *you* made him choose the $100 Grand bar?
Of course not. Your advance knowledge doesn't revoke
his free will, and neither does God's revoke ours.

Of course, I've sidestepped some chaos theory in
this example, but I don't believe these theories
do anything for my example but complicate it.

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