>Two things I'd like to note though: First, I am quite certain that using *force* as a means to make someone care, as you suggest I may have meant by that statement, will NOT work on very many people at all.

No, no, I didn't think you meant by force. :-)

> Why? Because using force as a means to change someones beliefs/values/ideas demonstates a lack of care.

You're right, the ends do not often (ever?) justify the means.

-snip-

>Second, I didn't say that it was possible for *me* to make anyone want to care; I don't believe that I can do so. I just mean that the possibility for anyone to change and to care exists.

Yes, I understood that too, and did not think you claimed to be SuperKaz!, able to make cranky customers obey store rules in a single
bound :-) I was using the phrase "you and me" because your position is that *each of us* can make the world a little better in our own way (sorry if that's a poor paraphrase)...and if not *particularly* you, or *particularly* me, then someone just like "you and me" doing their part.

>This change can come about through any way: through human effort or through God it doesn't matter.

I think the source does matter, when it comes to lasting effect, but let's save that for another discussion, if we may.

-snip-

>I think that I previously discussed the reasons why I choose to place my faith and hope within others -- I can relate easier to something that I know a good deal about myself. With God...well...my view right now is quite sketchy, at best. I am trying to learn more, but I still have a while to go. For me, it would seem that putting my faith in God would be putting my faith in an unknown...it might work work out better, but then again it might not. And before I put
faith in anything, I want to know a fair bit about it first. So, with God rather far and with others like myself quite a bit closer, I am more comfortable with putting my hope and faith in them rather then in God (for the time being, at least), despite the flaws I know we all have.

Fair enough. But remember that personal growth often begins when we step out of our own comfort zones :-) And of course, you know I encourage you to keep learning more about God.
>
> -Ka"I hope most of that made sense...if not I'm blaming it on the fact that it's late and I'm sleepy!"z!

koala"did I mention I had unexpected houseguests?"mom