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Re: If Dave were a babe...
Posted By: Sam, on host 24.128.86.11
Date: Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 19:18:11
In Reply To: Re: If Dave were a babe... posted by Wolfspirit on Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 07:01:25:

> > I don't think the presence or absence of a contraction has any bearing on the correctness of the verb form.
>
> Logically, I'd tend to agree. Unfortunately, an astonishing amount of syntax has always appeared to be structured around what simply "sounds right" to a native speaker. Not a surprising conclusion, given that most native speakers don't pick up syntax and structure in a formal sense. It's largely an unconscious process beginning from infancy.

No general rules of grammar that I know of are formulated by common usage. Some rules concerning specific words, sure. "The big black boat" sounds right, whereas "the black big boat" does not. But for general purpose rules such as verb tenses and contractions, I'm not so sure. In any case, there isn't anything I "feel" is wrong with "If Dave weren't a babe." It sounds sound to me.

> > "If Dave was not/wasn't a babe" says to me that you aren't sure if he was a babe or not. "If Dave were not/weren't a babe" says to me that you know he IS a babe but are speculating on how things would be if he were not. Since Dave is not a babe, it does not make sense to use this sentence format.
>
> Whoa. Hold it. Time out. Back up. I seem to be majorly misunderstanding something there in your last statement, "it does not make sense to use this sentence format." That is, to which tense format are you referring?

I'm saying that the subjunctive tense is used to suppose about situations that are not the case. Such as, "If Henry Ford were a lobster..." and "If cows weren't big comical looking animals...."

It makes sense, therefore, to say, "If Dave were a babe..." but it does not make sense to say, "If Dave weren't a babe..." because he isn't.

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