> > And I have a question regarding entrance into heaven. Do you have to be a Christian? If you arn't a Christian then you are breaking the first of the Ten commandments. But if that alone is enough to exile you from Heaven, and send you to hell, then that means Gandhi (one of the most influntial people of the 20th century, who freed his country through non-violence) went to Hell.
> >
> > I'm just useing Gandhi as an example, other heroic, kind, noble, and compasionate non-Christians would have gone to Hell as well.
>
> Well, although it DOESN'T seem fair that good people would get sent to hell, there are only three options when it comes to heaven.
> 1) Everyone gets in. Sounds fair, hm? No one has to worry about what they do, they just go to a nice happy afterlife... but then, what about people like Hitler? Pol Pot? So, unless you REALLY want to argue for people like that getting an eternal reward, that's out.
> 2) You get in based on your goodness. Let's say you have to be 90% good to get into heaven... that would let Gandhi in, don't you think? Makes sense.... but then, what about the 89.99999% people? Are you going to say they can't go because they were %.00001 not good enough? THAT doesn't make much sense either.
> 3) You only get in if you're perfect. Bam, no one can get in to begin with. That's where Christ came in - if we take his forgiveness and believe in Him, we are perfect in His sight. God can't be with anything other than perfection, because he is perfect himself.
>
> The bottom line is that everyone - from Gandhi to Hitler and everyone inbetween - does good things, and they all do bad things. From a Biblical perspective, no sin is any more of a sin than any other sin. (well, besides blaspheming the holy spirit... but no one's quite sure what that is, and that's a whole nother issue). Some sins (murder, rape, that sort of thing) might have more of an impact on the world than others. One little lie... what harm can that do? Well, maybe not much. But it's a sin nevertheless, and God can't be with it unless we are cleansed through Christ.
> >
> > Myself, I don't belive God sent Gandhi to Hell. God is often called a Loving God and I don't think a loving God would send as good a man as Gandhi to Hell. Maybe there is a secondary heaven for worthy non-Christians, better than Puragotry, much better than Hell, but not quite as good as heaven. The fruit isn't as fresh or something.
>
> Believe what you want - but if you take some parts of the Bible and throw others out based on what you like and don't like, you aren't following Christianity - you're following Sppedball-ism.
>
> Yeah, there are parts of the Bible I don't like and don't understand. I don't LIKE the fact that some pretty important people in my life are, from a Biblical standpoint, going to hell. But I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and that he's the only way to heaven. I believe that "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16). That says ALL scripture, not just what I like. I am staking my life on the truth of Christ's claims. Basically, I agree with EVERYTHING Sam and Wolfspirit have said.
> >
> > When I think about it, that might be the more fun place to visit. If Heaven is really Jew (Jesus freed all the Good Jews in Hell between Good Friaday and Easter Sunday) and Catholic only...
>
> I HOPE you meant Jews and Christians...

Oops, yeah, I did

> >the discusions would get repetative.
>
> With God there? I doubt it
>
> >In seconday Heaven you would have Buhhdists, Hindus, Wiccans, Incas, Aztecs. Gandhi, Plato, Socartes, Cheif Joseph... Man I'd like to get into a conversion with those guys.
> >
> > Speed'uh, yeah'ball
>
> uni"done for now"peg

Well, I respect your position, but we disagree on a basic thing. How we understand the Bible.
Even with out the alterations translations and recopying has done to the original versions of the scriputres over 2000+ years for the new tesement and over twice that for the Old, I think there is one more thing that must be taken into acount.

Humans wrote the Bible.

Humans arn't perfect. They may have been inspired and directed by God, but the original authors may still have made mistakes. Mistakes happen.

Part of Spiritual growth is sorting though the mistakes, mistranslations, and other errs, to sort out what came from God, and what came from the human holding the pens.

Also, they made pun, allusions, symbols, and other such verbal trickery in the original language, as well as useing slang, euphamisims, and regional saying.

I know you won't agree with this, and Sam and Wolf and a bunch of the rest of you won't either, but I do.

And I don't think I follow Speedball-ism, I follow Christianity, as directed by my heart and consious (sp?). And Jesus, as I understand him, wouldn't keep Ganhdi out. Eternal torment in fire pits just doesn't seem right for a man who gave his life for peace, freedom, and the good of his people.



Speed'Heaven isn't a Country Club'ball


P.S. Suggested Reading: Ishmeal by Daniel Quinn, I got the Country Club line from there.