> All the same, I think I see where he was coming
>from. All his life, and certainly all of ours,
>that region of the world has been plagued by
>violence, and there is no end in sight. It
>remains a largely a dangerous place, oppressive
>in particular to women, Jews, and Christians.
>
> If it's been going on all of Howard's life, let
>alone the centuries prior, what does that say
>about an ability to learn from mistakes?

I don't know what it says about the ability to learn from mistakes, but I do know I can make a similar argument about the history of Western Europe from the fall of the Roman Empire until 1945. Pretty much the whole history of that region of the world during most of that millenium and a half was a story of constant warfare, widespread barbarism, oppressive religion, holy war, and oppression of women, Jews, and the "wrong sort" of Christians. Also Muslims. It took two massive wars in the 20th century to get the Germans, French, British, Italians, and Spanish to stop fighting amongst themselves and instead work together. Thing is, when the change did happen, it happened *quickly*.

So I don't think saying "They've been like this since I've been alive" says much of anything about their ability to change. *shrug*

-- Dave