Re: Ok Tolkien-heads
Zarniwoop, on host 82.35.80.86
Thursday, January 12, 2006, at 07:39:04
Re: Ok Tolkien-heads posted by Dave on Wednesday, January 11, 2006, at 13:13:59:
> Aragorn never had a kingdom to rule in the north, true. But neither did his father, or his father's father, and on back for something like 15 generations. The Witch-King destroyed Arnor something like a thousand years ago reckoning from Aragorn's (actually Aragorn II of the Dunedain) time. So for all these years, all these generations of heirs to the throne of both Gondor and Arnor hung around in the woods playing game warden or something. Why?
> The best explanation I've heard came from a website (I've lost the link now, but I'll try to dig it up) where this guy who was obviously an insane hardcore Tolkien junky posts essays on many Middle-earth related topics. His essays are long and often boring for us non-Tolkien-heads, but the gist of one of them seemed to be that although Aragorn was indeed rightful heir to the throne of Gondor, proving it to the Ruling Stewards was another matter entirely. > > It goes something like this. Elendil, patriarch of the Kingdoms or Arnor and Gondor, had two sons, Isildur and Anarion. Isildur and Anarion both had sons (Isildur four, Anarion only one) but being the elder son, Isildur's heirs would be the ones to rule over the two Kingdoms. However, shortly after the war that vanquished Sauron (the first time) that resulted in the death of Elendil and Anarion, Isildur and his three oldest sons were also killed after being ambushed by orcs (this is the famous "betrayal" of the One Ring, where it slipped off Isildur's finger as he tried to swim across the river while invisible to escape the orcs.) Isildur's youngest son, Valandil, was too young to take the throne right away, and Isildur had left his nephew Meneldil (Anarion's son) in charge of Gondor in his absence, so Meneldil continued to rule in Gondor after the death of Isildur. When Valandil came of age, he did not assert his right to the throne of Gondor, and the two kingdoms essentially split, with the House of Isildur ruling in Arnor, and the House of Anarion ruling in Gondor. Anarion's line should never have been Kings of Gondor, but they sort of became so by default once Isildur's line failed to claim the throne. > > Eventually, the line of Anarion failed, and the Ruling Stewards took over control of Gondor until a rightful heir to the throne could be found. However, here's the tricky part. Apparently at this time, there were still heirs of Isildur kicking around in the north (well, their had to be, since there would still be some there hundreds of years later, but I mean "kicking around" in a more visible manor than playing at game warden). But for some reason, the Stewards did not recognize any of these heirs, and thus either by tradition or by some actual rule, they apparently decided that Isildur's line of heirs were not necessarily rightful Kings of Gondor either.
> This doesn't make any sense to me at all, but that's apparently the position Aragorn was in. He had to prove to Denethor (later Faramir) that he was a rightful heir of Elendil, but sort of tactfully leave out the part about Isildur, since apparently the Ruling Stewards had long ago decided that Isildur's heirs were either all dead or had given up their claim to the throne of Gondor (and on that part I'm not clear at all). The stupid thing is, there ARE only two possiblities if one is claiming to be an heir of Elendil. Either you are of the House of Isildur, or the House of Anarion, and the Stewards had apparently already ruled out both lines as heirs somehow. Anyway, when Aragorn presented himself to Faramir as a claimant to the throne, he claims only descent from Elendil, not Isildur, and Faramir, having already recognized Aragorn as rightful heir (by combination of Aragorn having healed him while he lay stricken in the Houses of Healing and from Aragorn's ability to command the Army of the Dead, I guess) recognizes him officially, despite the crazy contradiction that apparently entailed. > > So the *short* answer is, I STILL am not entirely sure why it took Aragorn (and for that matter, his ancestors of 15 generations or more back) to make their claim to the throne of Gondor, but apparently it has something to do with some really wacky rules and/or traditions of the Ruling Stewards of Gondor that they would have to overcome to do so. *shrug*
I had something made up already, full of suppositions and gaps. Then I thought "why not check the Appendices?" And it's all in there. Here's an overview.
King Ondoher of Gondor and his sons were slain during the wars with the Wainriders in TA 1944, and his Steward, Pelendur, became primary in the effort to replace him. King Arvedui of Arthedain claimed the throne of Gondor, seeking to unite North and South, on the grounds of descent from Isildur and marriage to Firiel, who was the only surviving child of Ondoher. Pelendur told him to get bent because the throne of Gondor belonged to the line of Meneldil, and it was determined through the sons only, disqualifying Firiel. He also said that the law seemed the same in Arnor. Arvedui responded that in Numenor, the throne went to the eldest child of the king regardless of gender, and Pelendur blanked him. The throne eventually was given to the victorious captain at the battle where the king and his family were lost, Earnil, and he became Earnil II. He was the great-grandson of King Narmacil II's brother, so he was of the royal house and the southern Dunedain did not object. Arvedui had neither the will nor the power to dispute the claim.
Now I have to quote directly from the appendices to describe the situation when Earnur disappeared into Minas Morgul and Mardil became Ruling Steward.
"Now the descendants of the kings had become few. Their numbers had been greatly diminished in the Kin-strife; whereas since that time the kings had become jealous and watchful of those near akin. Often those on whom suspicion fell had fled to Umbar and there joined the rebels; while others had renounced their lineage and taken wives not of Numenorean blood.
So it was that no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow; and all feared the memory of the Kin-strife, knowing that if any such dissension arose again, then Gondor would perish. Therefore, though the years lengthened, the Steward continued to rule Gondor, and the crown of Elendil lay in the lap of King Earnil in the Houses of the Dead, where Earnur had left it."
And, from the section on the Stewards of Gondor:
"Each new Steward indeed took office with the oath 'to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return'. But these soon became words little heeded, for the Stewards exercised all the power of the kings. Yet many in Gondor still believed that a king would indeed return in some time to come; and some remembered the ancient line of the North, which it was rumoured still lived on in the shadows. But against such thoughts the Ruling Stewards hardened their hearts."
This information is all from Appendix A, the sections on the latter days of the North-kings and the South-kings, and the overview to the Stewards. It should be somewhere around Page 1000-Page 1040 of a one-volume LOTR depending on edition.
Zarniwoop
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