> > Therefore, in this view the fundamental difference between scientific claims and spiritual claims is that scientific claims are based reasoning from observation while spiritual claims are based on reasoning from revelation. Even if you happen to not believe in supernatural revelation, you can still accept the validity of this perspective.
>
> No. Scientific hypotheses must be subject to test. This means the examples you cite, such as the inherent truthfulness of logic, are not scientific matters. They may not be spiritual questions either (I'd call them philosophical ones), but it is a requirement of scientific conclusions that they be falsifiable. This means, as you hint at, science cannot be used to prove itself. Anyone who is serious about science understands this important point.

Glad to see you too can eliminate centuries of philosophy by toying with definitions. There was a reason I phrased the whole thing with qualifiers like "in this view". It's the older view, the more consistent and useful one in my opinion, but not the only view. (Even now, the various definitions of "science" found in dictionaries are essentially identical to "experience".)

> If a bunch of physicists witnessed and recorded something that seemed impossible, do you think they would attribute it to the supernatural? Or, rather, would they assume it was a natural event simply not yet accounted for by physics?
>
> The natural world is far more fantastic and bizarre than our everyday human experiences would ever suggest. Were I to witness a miracle, I doubt I would recognize it as evidence of the supernatural.

Huh. You're right that there's a difference between a thing being proved in the abstract and it being proved to a person. I could smash a guy in the face yet not be able to prove to him that I'm solid, since there's nothing in the laws of physics to stop the air molecules in the room from converging on his face in that same instant. If a bunch of physicists witnessed the reanimation of a body that had been dead for days, they could likewise suppose that it was merely a chance matter of the molecules all suddenly moving in the right directions. But they'd be damn fools.

-Gabe