> > I understand completely why you would say that either I'm still a Christian or I never was. However, I disagree. At its very core, Christianity boils down to a set of beliefs.
>
> It doesn't, which is why I made that point. Whether you're a Christian or not is something God does, not you do by simply believing. Yes, belief is a component of saving faith, which is what prompts God to make that transformation in you, but my point is that either that has happened or it has not. If you cease to believe in God, maybe you never had that saving faith and God never transformed you spiritually. Or, alternately, you are still a Christian and have now deluded yourself. I would sooner guess the former, as I question whether the latter is even possible.
>

Sam, your reasoning on this point is circular. It doesn't make sense until you assume (believe) the existence of the Christian God as fact, and after that it's trivial to say that Christianity is a state of being rather than a state of belief.

On further reflection, I think knivetsil is in the midst of a "rebellious atheism" phase, based on his continuing need to "debate" the point with members of his childhood faith. I went through the same sort of thing in my late teens, and it wasn't till later that I became truly comfortable with my world view.

I think knivetsil could swing either way at this point, but if he's anything like me an argument like "You're a Christian if God made you one" is certain to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth about Christianity. As a student of logic, I took this sort of thing as an insult to my intelligence, and it gave me the impression that Christians try to misuse logic to prove their religion by tacitly assuming the existence of their God. Overly harsh, perhaps, but I was a teenager looking for a worldview.

I've seen you post several times about the wonderful things that God does for the world, and while I disagree with the premise it's the sort of thing that I imagine could inspire someone to see God in nature. But you can't reason someone back from the "dark side" by denying that Christianity is a state of belief. To my mind, your only recourse is to help him rediscover his faith, and at that point maybe he can join you in a line of reasoning that starts with God.

^v^:)^v^
F"left out the 'God v. science' debate because others have covered it quite thoroughly"B