> > > Unfortunately, when walls shift and aren't where they were when I drew them, it sort of messes up my map making attempt BIG TIME.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "shifting walls".
>
> This is the beginning of level 8, so I assume it's the fact that you hit squares that teleport you back to the first room. If you don't realize the teleport happens, it can screw with your map.
>
> Banan: commiebat's advice is good. I'll add a few details to deal with your particular situation.
>
> First, I shall assume you figured out how to get a LOCATION spell going, which displays the coordinates of your location at all times. If you don't have this, you need to get it, potentially by restarting the level and fighting the first couple battles over again (because getting that spell going requires events to occur in combat).
>
> The maps in Murkon's Refuge/Vengeance are 30 squares across (west-east) and 20 squares down (north-south), so I suggest drawing the outline of a 30x20 square on your graph paper right from the start. The upper left (northwest) corner is (0,0), so that means the lower right is (29,19). Remember that the levels wrap around, so if you go east from (29,19) you get to (0,19).
>
> Now, fill in every square where there's a wall in that first 4x5 room. Next, progress into the second room (the one to the north) and watch your coordinates. If you see them shift suddenly, putting you back into the first room, put a big X on the square that threw you back. Now you know not to step on that square again.
>
> If you're still confused at this point, my guess, from the tone of your posts, is that the biggest obstacle in front of you isn't so much the technical requirements of mapping the level as something psychological that's telling you it's harder than it really is. It ultimately all boils down to the fact that the level is a perfect 30x20 grid of walls, spaces, and other things, and the only thing you need to do is draw a perfect 30x20 grid on a sheet of paper and put a little symbol in each square that says what's in it.
>
> > I wonder if I should just not bother with these?
>
> Just a quick footnote here. I've noticed you often seem to end your requests for help with something about quitting whatever game you're playing. Besides that not being very motivating for others to invest time in helping you out (although you're getting pretty good help so far), nobody here can make that decision for you. If you want to quit, just quit. It won't offend me.

Thanks Sam, BTW, . When I said 'not bother with these", I did not mean the games. I only meant to stop asking for help because Mapping does, and always has, confused me. So, when I'm already really frustrated enough to ask for a hint and get 'map it out carefully' it doesn't seem worth asking and I should just keep trying different things or put it o hold for a while until I can come back to it with a fresh perspective.
Thanks for clearing so much up for me about mapping that I may never really need to ask for help again. :^) Think I can figure it out now. Banan