Re: Conviction and reason
Sam, on host 209.6.136.247
Tuesday, September 7, 1999, at 05:12:52
Conviction and reason posted by Wolfspirit on Tuesday, September 7, 1999, at 04:04:31:
> Ah, religious quandries in the game of life... I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head, Sam :-) I feel a great malaise coming between the two worlds, the secular and the spiritual.
Maybe you're just coming to recognize it? There always has been a great malaise between the two. Pretty much every historical book of the Bible is all about that.
> On the one hand is the doubting Scientist in me -- that part will not accept phenomena like demonic possession, prophetic visions, and healing miracles without having rigourous proof. The other side of me is the part overwhelmed by God.
Cherish both sides of you. Particularly the latter, of course, but God gave you a logical mind for a reason -- and what better than to use it? The first step of Christianity is always faith. It doesn't have to be "blind" faith, as skeptics will assert, but faith nonetheless. Building up from there, you can use more faith and, yes, logic. Remember that the absence of proof does not equate to the absence of evidence, even "scientific" evidence (or archeological, historical, etc). A great many books have been written about the hard core factual evidence for the truth of the Bible. It's great reading -- it's just important to realize that faith must be the foundation of our relationship with God that is supported by this evidence, and not the other way around.
> Because of this, I was baptized a follower of Christ on July 27th two years ago...
Great!
> You see, when you look to the Bible, and add together all the direct references to dreams and visions, and all the stories surrounding them, and all the prophecies that issued out of them, I'd say there's something like one-third of the Scriptures relating to dreams and visions. If, then, you throw in all the references to direct manifestations of God in our world, and all the miracles given as demonstration of his Sovereignty, something like three-quarters of the Bible falls under the purview of what skeptics call "irrational".
But here's where I am doubtful of such visions occuring now -- and, as an added bonus, an explanation of why such visions don't seem to be as prevalent today as it seems they once were.
Every book of the Bible up to around the middle of Acts was written concerning the times prior to Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection. In the Old Testament -- even during the times when Jesus Christ was on this Earth -- one could not "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, accept that he died for your sins, paying the punishment for them in your stead, and be saved." It hadn't happened yet! Prior to that, people were not -- could not -- be "saved" (redeemed from sin) in this way. Faith was a part of it, but it was given less importance. God, manifestations of Him, visions given by Him, were plentiful, for sins were absolved (at least temporarily, until Christ came and made the final sacrifice) by following the Law of Moses.
Christ's sacrifice obsoleted any need for the Law. Now God's gift of salvation is manifest in its ultimate form. Faith is everything. With visions and manifestations of God all over the place, there is little or no faith. Let's face it, if a vision of God manifest itself in the clouds above with a force of presence beyond my imaginings -- if God appeared and spoke and told me He was God, it wouldn't be on faith that I would believe it. Plus, we have the completed Word of God at our hands, chronicling everything God needs us to know about Him -- obsoleting the need for God to manifest Himself in visions to tell us those things. Now, we can bicker about whether visions of lesser force (refutable by an obstinate mind) occur or don't -- it's probably not worth our time -- but that's why divine visions, at least, do not occur with the frequency and intensity that they once did.
> And yet we profess to believe in it; in my case, I try to understand what I've been led to. > > So I have my inner conviction of the unseen reality of God, far more real and greater than what the senses can see.
Treasure that conviction, and treasure that desire to understand what you've been led to. You have an admirable desire and perseverance that many Christians do not.
> Contrast that against the effects of the observable physical world, where evidence of "reality" is plentiful and readily reproducible. How do I reconcile the "reality" of the two worlds without being dishonest to myself?
Maybe my ramblings have sort of addressed this somewhat. Maybe not. Come from, rather than working towards, the basic tennant that the "two worlds" are, in fact, one, and that the division is a false dichotomy, by virtue of the fact that God and the world we live in both exist. The job you name is the work of a life time. You've essentially asked, "How do I learn?", which, as we all know, is never finished. But there is great reward in working toward it.
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