> > And it is felt by myself and pretty much anybody else who supports Israel that there is a virulently anti-Israel opinion in the world. This is the same U.N. where you have quite a few member nations who would like nothing better than to see Israel destroyed, and who don't have much of a problem proclaiming this.
>
> I really hope that no-one would think me anti-Israeli.


And I hope I didn't come across as thinking you were.


> However. And it's a big however. There is no doubt that Israel has also given its neighbours a rough ride since its inception. A quick search on the net reveals that there have been some terrible atrocities committed by Israeli terror groups (Shtem, Irgon and Haganah come to mind)

I can find no evidence that any of those exist today. The only reference I can find to Shtem is an incident from 1948. The other two, I can only find in reference to incidents in the 40s. And I cannot find any credible reports (and by credible, I mean from something that is NOT some skinhead's Geocities website. I mean something from Western, non-state-controlled media, or other credible institution, providing some sort of actual documentation. Though I will admit: I can't be bothered at this particular moment to search very deeply) of the Israeli government supporting terrorist groups in the manner that Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hizbullah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, The Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade, are supported by the likes of Syria, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, etc.

Some argue that the Israeli government itself is a terrorist group. Last I checked, the only time the government responded with anything resembling terrorism is when Israel itself had been a victim of a terrorist attack, and that the government's respnose is aimed at the perpetrators.


>and that Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is a very contentious legal issue. One of the big problems is that Israel is, basically, an artificial state. Don't start yelling at me; I say this because Israel was set up as a home for vast numbers of badly treated and displaced Jews.


Hey, I'm a little amibivalent myself on Israeli designs on the West Bank and Gaza Strip. This is not an issue I have really studied at any length, but with what little information I have available, I'm not sure Israel really needs to be there.

And an artificial state is exactly what Israel is. I can't argue that one. ;-)

>That doesn't mean it shouldn't have been set up; it just means that it is more prone to instability and enemy activity than a state that has been in place for many more years. You're correct that, without US support, Israel would have disappeared a long time ago. But is it right to supply arms to a nation that occupies other territories?


Again, the United States isn't giving Israel support so that they can go and occupy territory. The United States supports Israel because no support means no Israel. It's the lesser of two evils, I suppose, though, of course, I'm not intimating that supporting Israel is evil.

>I don't know, I'm no moral disputant. But, even though Israel does get the "short end of the stick", its history means that if you offer *any* criticism about it, you get shouted down as an anti-Semite and a racist. By the way, the conspiracy theorists who claim that there's a Jewish plot to undermine all our values are dangerously deluded; it's very dangerous to go that far. But inability to offer criticism has led to lopsidedness in world opinion.


Once again: world opinion is by NO means in Israel's favor. Not by *any* stretch of the imagination. And yes, I do feel that Israeli supporters are rather loose with tossing about anti-Semitic claims, but in many regards, they're right. (i.e.: the Arab governments.)

> >Conversely, I don't see many nations professing that they would love to see the Arab world destroyed.
>
> How about Israel?


I've never once heard Ariel Sharon proclaim that he wishes to see the Arab world driven into the sea. But it is not a rare occurence to hear such proclamations from the lips of Arab governments.

>
> Then why the hell is there an international body that exists to pass resolutions that don't actually mean anything?


Perhaps one ought to ask France that question. ;-)


>The US has vetoed several resolutions that would "require" Israel to pull out of its occupied territories (again, legality is very thorny, but votes in the General Assembly suggest that everyone except Israel and the US think they shouldn't be there.)


Votes in the General Assembly are not the ones being vetoed by the United States. The United States vetoes Security Council resolutions, which also happen to come from the same Security Council that Israel *is not permitted to join*. And yet, every other nation takes a turn on the rotating, non-permanent, seats.

And again, I've not looked real deeply into reasons for Israeli incursion into Palestinian territories. Nor have I, more importantly, looked into why the United States opposes the U.N. demanding Israel withdraw. However, I believe that the Bush administration is actually in favor of creating a Palestinian state, which would help to (hopefully) eliminate some of these issues.

> This post is not meant as a rant against Israel, or the Jews. As I said, they have suffered terribly throughout the years. But this should not give them carte blanche in the Middle East.
>
> Si-"I hope this post conveys the sentiment it was meant to"-gi

The Other Matthew