> Here's how the argument works: I'm going to start by describing a simplified version of the universe. I will then begin to add in more complicating factors and see how it changes the universe. When I am finished, I hope to be at an analogy that corresponds to the way our universe seems to function. This is important, because obviously the first few examples will be not be representative of our reality or of Christian theology. Bear with me here.

Ok.

> We begin with god. I am going to make two assumptions about god: he is all-powerful and he is all-knowing. His omnipotence (all-powerful) implies that he is capable of creating anything, destroying anything he creates, and modifying anything he creates. His omniscience means he knows *everything*, including the future. This is a difficult thing for temporal beings such as humans to conceive, so lets assume he exists in some sort of state separate from the rest of physical reality: he's really a non-linear being who creates things in a linear-reality. For him, though, everything has already happened, is happening and has yet to happen.
(Stuff added later about QM and free agents that Im not repeating for length's sake,but did consider)

In my opinion, *everything* includes a bit more than you mention.

Omniscience: A coin is flipped, and comes up tails. The god you describe would know that it would do that, and what would result from that outcome. A truly omniscient god, though, would know what would be the result of the coin coming up heads, even though it doesn't happen.

Omnipotence: Randomness doesn't really exist at all. A truly omnipotent god can control the outcome of "random" events to suit his purpose.

> You'll notice that I assume nothing of god's character or motivations. We will ignore these for the whole of the analogy: I think my examples will work just as well with the omni-benevolent god of Christianity as they would with an evil god.

For this post, I am talking about the Christian God, as your questions at the end deal with him.

> God decides to create a universe. This universe is in many ways similar to a computer program, or a machine. Here's how it works: god creates physical laws, similar to the instructions of a computer program, or the gears of a machine that control its function. These laws describe the way in which energy and matter will interact.

I agree.

> God now has the groundwork for a universe -- he just needs to configure the "starting state."

Right.

> We are also going to assume that this simulation of the universe is a closed system. Once it is started, god will not interfere with its operation, ...

Ok, to an extent. Interference does exist in the Christian viewpoint, namely Jesus, who is God, and the occasions where God speaks with people. Other miracles are caused by the beginning state of the universe, leading to a random event having a certain outcome (see above).

> I hope this is clear. Understanding this (the end state is a function solely of the physical laws and the starting state) is crucial to the rest of the argument.

The exception doesn't affect your argument.

Since god is omniscient, he knows what the end state will be before he runs the simulation. This is important too: unlike a human programmer, who might need the simulation to determine the end state, god already knows how every possible beginning state will end up. If god, for whatever reason, wants a specific end state, he knows exactly how to achieve it from the beginning of the simulation.

Correct.

> We're now going to ratchet up the complexity a little more and get to the heart of the argument. Into this universe, god is going to introduce free agents. These are creatures (we'll go ahead and call them souls) that, for the moment, are capable of acting independently of the physical laws. They aren't physical beings, and right now we are going to assume that physical laws have no effect on them. They can make decisions and alter things in the physical universe, but they aren't subject to its laws. In other words, they have what we would usually call "free will."

An accurate definition.

> These souls then add another level of indeterminacy to the universe. Since their actions are guided by their free will, not merely dictated by the interactions of physical forces, it would be impossible for a human to know the end state of a universe simulation in which they were present. Like QM, though, god can still know the end state without reducing the souls to simply being deterministic cogs in a machine.

Correct, the difference being souls have free will. Although God could force souls to do his bidding he chooses not to.

> In reality, though, these souls do not appear to be free from physical influences. Their interaction with the universe is two-way: while they can make decisions that influence the universe, physical factors seem to be able to influence their decision making. So we're going to bind these souls to physical bodies. Soul + body = human in this analogy. The soul is still the primary factor in the decision making process of the human, but two things seem to affect its ability to make decisions:
>
> 1) The experiences of the human.
> 2) The current physical state of the human.

Yep, and these God controls.

> Again, god, with perfect knowledge of the starting state and the outcome of all non-deterministic interactions can control the ending state with the starting state. No significant changes from his point of view.

Deterministic interactions also. More on this later.

> I have committed a bit of faulty reasoning, though. I have assumed something without being direct about it, and I'll bet many of you didn't notice: I have assumed that the souls have some means of evaluating decisions apart from their experiences with the physical universe.
>
> This is important. Is there some intrinsic nature of these souls that guides their interactions? Hrm. I don't know, and this where I have to ask a question of those who believe in souls and free will: if souls have the ability to make decisions that aren't influenced only by physical factors, what is the nature of this ability? Where does it come from? How is it used?

It's called free will. If decisions are influenced only by other factors, how can they be controlled?

> I'm now going to have to fork my simulation to account for two different possibilities:
>
> The first is the materialistic view of the universe.

As I said, Im responding from a Christian POV so...

> The second view is a hypothetical view that I created only because I was unable to come up with any other explanation for the Christian viewpoint. In this simulation, souls have some sort of intrinsic nature that they can rely on to aid them in their decisions. This intrinsic nature is set by god.

Yep.

Again, though, this removes "true" free will from the souls, since they have no control over the only tools they have for making decisions.

Why? If someone gives you a hammer, does he control how you use it? In the same way, God gives free will, but doesn't control how it's used.

> One final thing: let's assume god has a plan for the universe. In other words, he wants a specific end state. Given that everything in the universe is controlled by laws he created (after all, if he didn't want quantum mechanics he didn't need to implement them) and that he gets to define the starting state AND that he knows the outcome of every possible interaction before it happens, how is it reasonable to assume that *anything* ever happens that is not god's will?

It isn't reasonable. Here's where I differ from just about everyone I've talked to regarding this issue. I believe in free will and predestination. Contradictory? Decide for yourself.

Consider a random event that will affect a person: A or B
Since God is omniscient, he knows what will happen as a result of both these choices, we'll call the results a and b, respectivally.

Assuming a is the result that God wants to happen, He's going to plan the universe to arrive at A. This is predestination.

However, God doesn't choose for us to do a as a result of A, we do. He simply knows what we're going to decide ahead of time and uses that knowledge to achieve his purpose.

For the Christian God, that purpose is for everyone to come to Christ that will, given the right circumstances, come to Christ. Some people won't under any circumstance, due to free will. God still uses these people though, in order to reach others.

Why do bad things happen? They happen in order to either contribute towards God's main purpose, or contribute towards a second purpose as described in the last book of the Bible, Revelation, which will take place once the amount of people that can become Christians, are.
Those events describe the final elimination of evil.

Ok, thats it for now, any comments are welcome. Hope it helps.

-white"Phewww, that was a long one"helm