Baptisms (Re: The Deepest Water Ever...)
Sam, on host 24.61.194.240
Friday, May 31, 2002, at 10:34:05
Re: The Deepest Water Ever... posted by Shandar on Saturday, May 25, 2002, at 10:25:21:
I replied to this already, but since then I've done some more reading and hunting and think I can give you a more comprehensive response now than then.
The thing about studying baptism in the Bible is to realize that there are a number of different kinds of baptisms. "Baptism" just means "immersion," more or less. In the Bible, I count eight separate and distinct types of baptisms, and while that number may be arguable, it should be quite obvious that there is more than one, and if we are to compare Scripture dealing with baptism, we have to know which ones are being spoken of.
To start to illustrate how there are different baptisms, I'll first paradoxically show how there is only one. (!) Ephesians 4:4-6 says, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Now, the thing here is, what's the context? There are lots of faiths around the world -- how can there be only one? Is there truly only one lord? Well, compare with I Corinthians 8:5-6: "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things...." The thing to note is the "but to us." There are many gods, lords, etc, but *to us* there is only one, and this is the context of Ephesians 4. As I'll show in a minute, there are a lot of different types of baptisms, but "to us" in the body of Christ, only one. After establishing that, we simply have to figure out *which* one.
First, though, an overview of the different types of Biblical baptisms.
(1) John the Baptist baptism. This is the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). The purpose of this baptism is given in John 1:31. Jesus comes upon John the Baptist, and John the Baptist says, "Hey, here's the Lamb of God," (1:29) and he starts talking about him. He says, "...that he [Jesus] should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."
(2) Now this baptism is distinct from our water baptism. Acts 19:3-5 illustrates this. In verse 3, Paul "said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism." Then, in verse 4, Paul reiterates that John's baptism of repentance was so "they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus," which is accord with John's own explanation for the purpose of his baptism. Then, in verse 5, these people were baptized AGAIN, this time "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Two different baptisms: otherwise, only one baptism would have been required.
(3)-(4) Neither of these are the same as Jesus' baptism, who baptizes with the Holy Ghost. This baptism has nothing to do with water. In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." Some people call the Holy Ghost baptism and the fire baptism the same one, but it makes more sense for it to be two: you don't want a baptism in the lake of fire. Fire baptism burns "up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (verse 12). Acts 10-11 also talks about baptism with the Holy Ghost and doesn't mention fire at all. But this distinction is not necessary for the point at hand. The more obvious thing to realize is that John the Baptist is talking about at LEAST two different baptisms in verse 11.
(5) Peter's water baptism to Israel after the cross "for the remission of sins" is different from John the Baptist's baptism. John's baptism was, by John 1:31 and Acts 19:4, to make Christ manifest before Israel. Peter's baptism to Israel is so "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38). Similar idea, but different purpose. This is the baptism that Christ speaks of in Mark 16:16 and commands in Matthew 28:19.
(6) I Corinthians 12:12-13 talks about being baptized *into* the body of Christ, *into* the Holy Spirit. This baptism matches Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, and Romans 6:1-6, and it's the "one baptism" referred to in Ephesians 4: this is the baptism of Paul's gospel. It's something God does. Water is not mentioned anywhere in association with this baptism.
I left out two baptisms. Jesus' death is called a baptism that he underwent, and I Cor. 10 talks about a "baptism unto Moses in the clouds and in the sea." It's probably not productive trying to distinguish these from the above for our purposes.
What my purpose here *is* is to illustrate how (2), (5), and (6) are not the same.
First, let's distinguish our water baptism from Peter's. Acts 2:38 discusses Peter's. "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." But by Acts 10, the mystery of the gospel of the grace of God was revealed to Paul. He hadn't told Peter yet, but God had put into effect the gospel given to Paul by revelation, and in Acts 10:44-48 we see clearly that the Holy Spirit came FIRST. We no longer need a water baptism to get the Holy Spirit. Later, in Acts 11:15-16, Peter reflects back on this event and notes how the Holy Ghost fell on them "as on us at the beginning," implying that this hadn't been the case all along (and by Acts 2:38, clearly it hadn't).
Another difference is when our sins become blotted out. Under the gospel of the kingdom, the sins of Israel don't get blotted out right away (Romans 11:25-27, Acts 3:19), but under the gospel of the grace of God, they are (Colossians 2:14, 3:13, Ephesians 4:32). Baptism #6, the baptism into the body of Christ which God performs when we first believe, has our sins blotted out right away. But Peter's water baptism was for the remission of sins at a future date. Not the same baptism.
All this adds up to Peter's water baptism being different from Paul's water baptism being different from the baptism into the body of Christ. Our "one" baptism is this last one, and while we still practice the water baptism described in I Cor. 1 and Acts 10:44-48, this is strictly a symbolic ordinance. We're already in the body of Christ, already got the Holy Spirit, already have our sins blotted out. But we use water baptism as a remembrance and also as a means of publically declaring our faith in Christ.
Addressing a few points you raise that I did not address earlier:
> You see, Paul was dealing with some divisions that had come up among the Corinthian brothers and sisters. People were beginning to take pride in who had baptized/converted them. They were naming each group after the one who had performed the baptism. Therefore, Paul, in 1 Corinthians 1:14:15, thanked God that no one there had the opportunity to say they were baptized in his name.
I agree with the above. It is apparent to me that this is the issue that Paul was addressing in I Cor. 1. However, note what Paul says in speaking of this. "For Christ sent me not to baptize..." (1:17). Paul would seem to be in violation of Matthew 28:19, in which Christ says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." But he's not: Christ and Paul were speaking of different baptisms, one no longer required to receive the Holy Ghost, the other a purely symbolic act.
> I'm not saying that Paul is wrong, but I am saying that Paul's gospel did not differ from that of the other apostles as it was all based on the life and teaching of Jesus. What was the gospel? Paul told us very plainly what the gospel is: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
You've done half my work for me. You're right: I Cor. 15:1-4 *is* Paul's gospel, the gospel of the grace of God. But it's quite different from the gospel of the kingdom, as I can show quite conclusively. In Matthew 4:23, Christ preached "the gospel of the kingdom." In Matthew 9:35, he did it again. In Matthew 10, Christ commanded the apostles to go out and preach, so they must have known *what* to preach. Yet it isn't until Matthew 16:21 that Jesus even MENTIONS anything given in I Cor. 15:1-4: that Christ would be executed and be raised from the dead the third day, and this news takes the apostles completely by surprise. Now if there is just one gospel, I Cor. 15:1-4, how can this be the same "gospel of the kingdom" that Christ was preaching all along?
This is but one reason among many to distinguish between the two, many of the rest given in the post I referred you to before, #56351.
To quickly recap:
(1) There are a lot of different baptisms in the Bible (even if the exact number is arguable), and so it's important not to zero in on the word "baptism" and assume the same thing is always being talked about. Different baptisms are for different purposes, some similar, some not. Some baptisms are with water; some not. Some baptisms are performed by a person, some by God. One must look at the big picture of what the Bible has to say about baptisms and figure out what *we* are supposed to do.
(2) Not everything in the New Testament is directed specifically at us, although it is all given for our learning. We have to realize that there are two different gospels being preached, and we have to figure out which one applies to us, living at the present time.
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