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Re: The Deepest Water Ever...
Posted By: Shandar, on host 12.239.152.52
Date: Saturday, May 25, 2002, at 13:20:50
In Reply To: Re: The Deepest Water Ever... posted by Ellmyruh on Saturday, May 25, 2002, at 12:37:11:

> I think you're mixing tenses in this argument. Here's the text of Romans 10:9-10: "(9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
>
> This is an "if/then" statement, meaning that IF you do this, THEN that will happen. It's just the way it's written, so that's why it says "you will be saved," rather than "you are saved." It's saying that something WILL happen, not that it has already happened. That's just how the English language works.

I'll concede that my "will be/is" argument was shaky at best. But the main point I was making I think is still valid. Paul very clearly states that confession brings salvation.

> As for the rest of this argument for baptism, does that mean that, until they are baptized, Christians aren't saved and won't go to heaven? If so, then if a Christian died the day before he was to be baptized, would he go to hell?

I do not particularly like to argue hypotheticals, but I'll take a stab at explaining my feelings on this. I think the grace of God will make up the difference in this instance. Obviously, God is interested in matters of the heart. So, if I was on my way to be baptized and someone shot me in the head as I was making my way inside the church building then I think God would be understanding of that. Does that mean He has to be? Certainly not. God has the right to condemn anyone he chooses for any reason. Anyone who falls short in any way of His perfection is ultimately responsible for their own actions and thus eligible for punishment. But, thankfully, God has offered us salvation through his Son. And we have the option to take advantage of his grace if we are willing to submit ourselves to him.

>I simply cannot see the reasoning behind requiring someone to undergo a physical action before they can be saved, which is NOT a physical thing. If that really is what you are saying, then I suppose all babies should be baptized immediately at birth, just "in case" they decide to become Christians.

Quite to the contrary. Babies have no need of baptism or even Christ's sacrifice because they retain their innocence. It is only after knowledge of the Law comes that sin comes.(Romans 7:9-11) It has always been that way. Consider Adam and Eve in the garden. They may have committed many things which would have been considered evil, but until they ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and thus KNEW good and evil, they were innocent.

Shandar

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