> > If you already have faith in something, of course you're going to see it happening around you.
>
> I can have faith that when I drop a rock off a bridge, it'll fall up, but it doesn't mean I'm going to see *that* happening around me.

Shouldn't have replied to quickly, because further thoughts came to mind not long after. While this initial reply did not say so, I actually do see your point. And if there is no God, then I quite agree with you.

However, if the God of the Bible exists and has set forth faith, as the Bible describes, as the means by which one comes to Him and that he will substantiate the faith of those who believe in him -- and he can do that, since he's God and all -- does this pattern of learning not make sense after all?

Whereas, having "faith" in King Arthur, it would not, because if the legends of King Arthur are true, they will not actively substantiate belief in them. You either believe in the legends of King Arthur or you don't, and in either case that's the end of the road. You encounter evidence one way or the other, you embrace it ignore it, but there is no *active entity* on the other end of that faith that returns the support.

One *cannot* have "faith" in King Arthur anyway. Faith is more than an extreme of belief: it is trust as well. In believing the legends of King Arthur, there is no place for trust to be put. (Having "trust" that the legends are real is not the kind of trust I mean, as there is still no individual in question to be trusted.) In believing that God loves us and will redeem us, one trusts in Him and that He will substantiate faith in him.

Again, it all comes back to your perspective. Assuming that God exists, it makes sense. Assuming he does not, it doesn't.

The other half, my "rock falling up" illustration, was to show that the substantiation of faith is not necessarily ambiguous. True, in some matters believing something already makes it easier for us to "see" the evidence supporting it; however, in others this is not the case. I can believe all I want that if I throw a brick straight up, it will not come back down and conk me on the head, but I would not be very honest with myself if, lying in a hospital bed that evening with an array of ice packs, my "faith" blinded me to the evidence to the contrary. It all depends on the kind of substantiation we're talking about and what the matter is in the first place.

True, I am human and consequently prone to error. Nonetheless, I think I'm a generally a pretty rational person and self-aware enough to be conscious of the times when I'm not. I have a trusting nature and have occasionally been taken in by things like urban legends -- but I'm both analytical and cynical enough to be able to perceive illusion, potential deception, and fallacious reasoning, given enough time. I'm just old enough to have grown out of most of my childhood prejudices and reflected back upon things I always took for granted, or at someone else's word, with a more objective mind.

For what it's worth, which admittedly may not be much, in the many years I've spent following Christ, my convictions have only strengthened over time as I continue to observe God working in my life and in the lives of those around me, according to biblical promises about God's works and faithfulness. In Christ, I've found an amazing sort of peace that comes with knowing I can trust myself to Him completely. I have answers to so many age old questions -- what is my purpose in life? -- that overwhelms me with the peace they bring. I've come to know God as an actual person, directing and guiding my spiritual development. If this were all a childhood fancy or a shocking hoax, I would think sooner or later I'd come upon something that would throw me for a loop, because it's not like I'm not like I'm less self-examining of my relationship with God than in other areas of my life -- in fact, I'm *more* self-examining about that than anything else. And although I've been through times when doubts have arisen, and I speculate about "what IF this is a mistake after all?" ultimately, every time, I come to a point in the line of reasoning that I just can't find an alternative explanation for. Speaking for myself and my own life experiences, I'm less sure that that brick would come back down and conk me on the head.

*shrug* Take that for what it's worth. My experiences with God are mine.