> Reading the excellent reader review of the movie reminded me of a raging debate I had recently, from which I am still wounded and seeking justice and above all, truth. It has occurred to me that here, if nowhere else, is a place I can come, fumbling, for some illumination of the mystery.
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> When I saw the grouchy old woman and slightly less grouchy old man who frowned at Gandalf and Frodo in Gandalf's cart (on the way to Bag End, right when Gandalf set off the spray of fireworks to appease the kids) I said to myself, "Hey! it's the Sackville-Bagginses!" and I was filled with elitist delight because those of us who knew the books would know them as characters, while everybody else would think they were just random grouchy hobbits. I took it for granted that they were Otho and Lobelia, and didn't think much about it afterwards. A few weeks ago, I mentioned this to my friend, and she said, "No, that wasn't them!" I stared at her in astonishment. She proceeded to argue that the grouchy old man, whom I took for Otho, was the same as the man who shouted "ProudFEET!" at the birthday party. This I would not have; I don't remember if the two gentlemen were identical or not, but I believed so deeply in the Sackville-Baggins theory that I reeled with shock to find that my belief was not universal. We had a rather noisy argument. I used most of the strategies in 'How to be Persuasive' to support my side, but she must have read it when I wasn't looking because she was unmoved by my assault upon her reason, and returned with some of the same tactics. We ended in a draw.
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> So tell me: did anybody else think that those two people were the Sackville-Bagginses? Does anybody have conclusive evidence to support either side of the argument? I desperately need support here; or, if my deepest beliefs on the subject are to be overthrown, I need to know it as soon as possible so I can begin to reassemble the tattered fragments of my worldview.
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> Lire"also wants to know how many angry letters Sam has gotten about that review"lyn

I thought that those two grouches were the Sackville-Bagginses because thay were the only grouchy-looking hobbits. I thought they were getting a playful Gandalf trick played on them when he let off the fireworks. Did we all "see" the same movie??

Ar"Missed Tom Bombadill too!"ley