Libby, after reading the whole thread here, something occurred to me. I think you're fighting for the wrong cause.

You seem to think killing animals is OK under certain conditions, or at least that it's better to eat "happy" animals, like if you go hunting for food or if you have yard chickens and so forth.

I come from a farm myself (well, it's not run anymore and it's rather small), and I can tell you that it's possible to run a farm and have happy animals in it. The animals are given housing, food and care during the harsh winter, and in the summer, they roam the mountains tottally free to do as they please, not threatened by any natural carnivorous enemies.

In return for this carefree life, we get to decide when they die. And then in a quick way in a controlled environment.

However, there are farmers who don't treat their animals right. There are animals who suffer, who live in, as you say, boxes all their lives. This I do believe is wrong, as I'm sure you do, too.

So why not continue being a vegetarian (because there's no harm in it -- on the contrary, it's very healthy, and you don't *need* meat), but put all that energy and enthusiasm you display here to really good use by trying to make the conditions for farm animals better?

Trav"just an observation"holt.