> > History shows us that, at any time and in any
> > place, religion and politics have always been
> > involved in each other; still nowadays, in many
> > communities, the religious leader is also the
> > political one.
>
> I disagree, at least as far as Christianity is concerned. Christ certainly never held a political office; on the contrary, He frequently denounced the political/religious leaders of first-century Israel.
>
> The first, second, and third century Christians were not closely involved with the government. They were, in fact, persecuted by the Roman Empire. The Romans viewed Christianity as a threat and wanted to stamp it out of existance. But persecution only served as a catalyst that caused Christianity to flourish even more.
>
> But then came Constantine, who while on the battlefield supposedly saw a red cross in the sky and heard the words "By this sign you shall conquer," or something to that effect. "If you can't beat them, join them," was his motto. His Edict of Milan (in 307? 310? I can't remember the year) made Christianity the official religion, and the "Holy Roman Empire" and the Roman Catholic Church were born.

A red cross in a circle, the sign of his sun-deity. Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun. And join he did; he joined pagan practices with Messianic belief, with things like changing the official rest-day to "The Venerable day of the Sun(-deity)". You can look these things up; you'll also find that not once in the Bible did they call the first day of the week "the Sabbath", and they certainly didn't say it's wrong to keep Sabbath on the seventh day.

> Even so, down through history there has always been a core group of Christians who didn't go into the RC Church. The Anabaptists, Waldensians, and others that I can't remember off the top of my head. These groups were persecuted by the Catholics, branded as heretics and tortured and martyred if they would not recant.

Yes, and any Jew who came into the R.C. Church, either by choice or by force, had to throw away the commands of God in order to do the traditions of men, or face the consequences.

> I may be misunderstanding your statement. I think that Christians can and should be involved with politics...we need people with high morals and standards in government. But I don't believe that true Christianity has ever been controlled by or wrapped up in politics.

Key word being "true", of course.

> Grishny

Nyper"Doesn't believe in salvation by works, but doesn't believe that it's wrong to do what God said"old