> > Tensions are mounting, and things are getting down to the wire. Obviously we are not about to resolve our differences anytime soon, so I think it's best to lay our cards on the table, so we all know where we stand.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't know where I stand.
> >
> > On the one hand, I like honey dipped doughnuts, both raised and chocolate. On the other, I have a fondness for powdered bavarian creme doughnuts, too, and Boston creme doughnuts -- bavarian creme doughnuts with a chocolate frosted instead of powdered exterior -- are good when I'm feeling more resistant than usual to richness induced headaches.
> >
> > Since it's obvious the doughnut hole proponents and the intact doughnut proponents must engage in bloody civil war to resolve their differences, yet I hold stake in both, I hope nobody minds if I wait until everybody else has stated their positions before I choose sides. After that time, I will quite happily choose what looks to be the winning side, renounce any claim to the other, fight valiantly for the good of my newly acquired cause, and hope I don't die. I'm a capitalist, after all, self-interested but not altogether selfish.
>
> doughˇnut also doˇnut. n. 1. A small ring-shaped cake made of rich, light dough that is fried in deep fat. Also called, regionally olicook. 2. Something whose form is reminiscent of a ring-shaped cake. 3. A fast, tight 360° turn made in a motor vehicle or motorized boat.
>
> Source: www.dictionary.com
>
> Scientists have one very good tool for solving deep philosophical problems like this one. That tool is called a "thought experiment", and it consists of turning everything in the universe into a sphere of constant density and then running a bunch of these spheres into each other at some high velocity. I'm no good at that though, so instead I'm going to ask you to imagine a couple of scenarios and see where that takes us.
>
> Scenario 1: Imagine a cake-like substance, high both in fat and sugar. Form the cake-like substance into a ring (or "torus", if you like), and if you like put some syrup or honey glaze or chocolate on top. What have you got? Doughnut, right? By definition, in fact, you have a doughnut -- see the definition above if you don't believe me.
>
> Scenario 2: Imagine the same cake-like substance, high both in fat and sugar. Form the cake-like substance into a squat cylinder (not a torus). What have you got? It looks like a doughnut, except there's no hole in the middle. But we don't call it a doughnut anymore, do we? We call it a /cake/. A small cake, perhaps, but a cake and /not/ a doughnut.
>
> So. Conclusions? Well, if it has a hole in the middle, it's a doughnut. And if it doesn't, it's a small cake. So therefore doughnuts must have holes in the middle.
>
> But I'm not done yet.
>
> Scenario 3: Take the doughnut from scenario 1, and immerse it in a viscous, liquid substance. This substance should be such that it does not dissolve or break down any of the doughnut. What do you have? Well, you have a doughnut immersed in a viscous, liquid substance. But it's /still a doughnut/, right?
>
> Scenario 4: Okay. This viscous, liquid substance is /bavarian cream/. We're going to take the doughnut back out, but it's still going to have bavarian cream where the hole was. It's still a doughnut, because it's a cake-like substance shaped into a ring. The only difference is, it's got something other than /air/ in the middle. But as we saw from scenario 3, that doesn't make any difference, it's still a doughnut.
>
> Scenario 5: Now, one last step. We're going to cover over the top and bottom of the hole with the cake-like substance. This part is a little sticky. But the argument goes, it's still got a hole in the middle, the hole is just filled with something other than air. Now you've got a bavarian cream filled doughnut -- and if you've followed me, it's still a doughnut!
>
> The only thing is, we /did/ stick a bit of cake-like substance over the top and bottom of the hole. But I think that this is just to keep the bavarian cream from falling out and should not impact the doughnutness of the resulting object.
>
> Two caveats:
> 1. If the doughnut manufacturers ripped you off and didn't stick any bavarian cream in the middle, then it's not a doughnut anymore; it's a cake.
> 2. Things that /don't/ have cream or filling (or air) in the middle but instead have the same cake-like substance that the rest of the doughnut is made of are /cakes/ and /not/ doughnuts. "Long Johns", for example, are not doughnuts unless they put some sort of filling in there.
>
> -Spacebar

Dictionary.com defines 'hole' as: a cavity in a solid. 'Cavity' is defined as: an unfilled space within a mass; especially : a hollowed-out space. Sounds to me like a hole needs to stay empty to remain a hole.

Mou"I think they should be more specific and say a cavity is a space unfilled by the same thing as the mass/solid it's in, but that's counter to my point"sie