> >
> > > I don't see living together as a cop-out, though. If you define "marriage" as "having had a church wedding ceremony", then I would have to say I am not married. However, if you define it as a committed lifelong union of love, mutual respect and all the rest, in which separation is not an option, then I am certainly married. After eleven years I see no difference between our "living together" and anybody else's "marriage" - in fact, we have seen one of our properly-married friends get through upwards of three properly-married and subsequently properly-divorced wives in that time.
> > >
> > > There are many reasons to get married, and of course for many people it is a religious obligation to do so instead of living together. I think these days it's a personal decision. The "cop-out" element of living together, as I see it, would be in settling for a long series of cheap, short-term failed relationships. And that sort of failure isn't restricted to the unmarried. The commitment of both partners to each other and their relationship is what's important, whether married or not.
> > >
> > > Brunnen-"not against getting married, there just hasn't seemed to be any reason to"G
> >
> > Although I have my views on living together, that wasn't my main reason for posting. I think Brunnen_G explains what I failed to do and that is that people can use stupid reasons for living together and for getting married and there are often stupid reasons involved in ending the relationship. In the U.S., Brunnen_G would be under a common law marriage at this point. I admire her commitment even though I disagree with her method. At least she is sincere and open about it instead of trying to set up a smoke screen for herself.
> >
> > Marriage (and commitment) is too often not taken seriously and people try to fool themselves into thinking otherwise. I would rather see a wedding ceremony at a hotel, run by a judge, and completely absent of "religion," than one where it is in a church because of tradition or because they don't want to upset Aunt Martha. If the wedding day is already a sham, how well can the participants actually treat the marriage?
> >
> > Ferrick
>
> One thing that ... puzzles ... me about marriage as a religiously/legally sanctioned event is this: A couple gets married in the church or the temple or whatever and that religion recognizes them in a new way and gives them certain "rights," if you will. It allows them to live together, have sex, yadda yadda, and, because they're married, the religion says it's okay.
>
> But they also have to get a marriage license from the state. What rights does that give them? In some states, an underage spouse can drink in the presence of their of-age partner. State sanctioned marriage used to give couples the right to insure each other, but in this age of "domestic partners," that's a moot point. In some states, a married woman's husband is considered the father of a child she conceives during that marriage, but obviously blood and DNA testing can be used to make a biological father pay child support. So, in the absence of the religious/moral aspects, simply from a social standpoint, what benefits does marriage offer?
>
> As for getting along, I found out the hard way (married and divorced by the time I was 26) that you're more likely to continue getting along with someone over a lifetime if that someone has similar values, similar priorities, and thinks the same things are important -- or realizes what's important to you and treats those things as important, whether they agree or not.


Everytime I hear one of those discussions about what makes marriages work, I start to wonder how WMM and I have managed to make a go of it. We aren't anything alike. I'm male and she's female and it goes downhill from there. But we have been happily married 4FRNFR. We have put away some of our differences. For example, she hardly ever ate rice and I NEVER ate okra. Those are staples on our table now. She used to have problems with motion sickness, but I traveled it out of her. She grew up on a farm and I grew up in town. Now we live in a subdivision out in the country. I finished college, she finished high school. But she's smarter than me, so it balences out. I'm cold all winter and bug-bitten all summer. She doesn't mind the cold and bugs don't like her. It goes on and on. Opposites attract? Maybe.
Howard