> > > I forgot to mention something about driving in Canada. Wolf and Dave told me that Canada has "no fault" driving insurance. Basically, if there's an accident, nobody was at fault. The insurance companies work out who pays what, but, since it's never anybody's fault, insurance rates don't go up on a per-accident basis, and you can't sue anybody civilly. It's a terrible system. For one thing, it means people don't have to shoulder responsibility for their actions. (Denial of responsibility is a rampant social disease today as it is.) Insurance rates are set up so good drivers don't get lower rates and bad drivers don't get higher rates -- good drivers, instead, subsidize the accidents bad drivers have. I have to wonder if the lunatics I encountered on the road *wanted* to crash into me. In the U.S., if you run into somebody, your insurance rate goes up. In Canada, apparently you just get a new car.
> >
> > Absolutely impossible. At least impossible to be true of the whole country. I live in Canada (Ontario though) and while we have no fault insurance it means that /everyone/ pays. whether it was your fault or not. I know people who have been in so many accidents and have such high insurance that they might as well not be able to drive at all. Ok it's still not the greatest system but its not as bad as having no consequences.
> >
> > Maybe its different in Quebec
> >
> Riv "Couldn't let you stay mad at the whole country" ikah

Well, I feel somewhat that way too. You may not want to slam the entire country on the basis of a few insensitive idiots, who basically learned to drive in a cornfield, plus one certified lunatic bully who absolutely *WILL* find himself getting picked up by the S.Q. police one of these days.


> I asked about whether the insurance rates went up, and what was described to me by Wolf's husband was that the insurance rates weren't significantly adjusted on an individual basis but rather by the total number of accidents by all policy holders. Maybe that's Quebec, maybe I misunderstood, or maybe he was wrong. In any case, thanks for the more concrete information.

I'm still wondering how on earth we got on this topic...

Okay, let me try to explain it in more detail. "No fault" insurance does NOT mean that it frees drivers of their civic responsibility to drive safely. In cases of gross negligence, like if someone is found to be driving drunk, or is otherwise impaired and dangerous, or commits a felony like hit-and-run, then *criminal* charges will be pressed against the offending motorist. What "no fault" means is that no *civil* charges can be laid for minor accidents. The insurance is paid for by each and every driver in Quebec through driver's license fees. The end result is that the judiciary system is freed of the burden of hearing claims laid by drivers, who would otherwise be attempting to sue the socks off each other over a few dents.

Even with the no-fault liability it is in the driver's best interests to drive carefully, because if someone finds him/herself getting into somewhat *too* many accidents, eventually the underwriter will refuse to insure that particular person anymore -- which effectively means he or she will not be able to drive.

It may sound like a frivolous point that we have an insurance system which is set up to save the courts some time, but it is not. There are already too many squabbles tying up court time and preventing the real cases from being heard. Without no-fault, people are then forced to buy additional liability coverage to protect themselves against lawsuits by other motorists whose insurance benefits are inadequate. I do know that out in Western Canada there is no system set up for no-fault accidents and it is somewhat more litigious there. However it's nowhere near as litigative as certain places where it is possible, for example, to win $30,000+ from McDonald's for stupidly spilling hot coffee into one's own lap while driving. Such a frivolous lawsuit would be thrown out in any court in Canada.


> Kaz tells me his experiences in Montreal were similar to mine but that he hasn't had that problem in western Canada. I feel better knowing it isn't the whole country.

Can't be. Some of the most refined and politest drivers I've ever met have been from Canada, in the rural Maritimes (Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, P.E.I.) Driving around in the Rockies was nice too. I have a feeling that driving around in big cities or congested highways (like those around Greater Metropolitan Toronto) takes some getting used to. Big-city drivers get into this horrible habit of cutting in way too close and they expect everyone to have the same reflexes they do. We're taught to do defensive driving here, which means knowing the location and behavior of every single car around you in a 4-car-deep radius. You can therefore spot any idiots well before they become a problem, and make sure to be far away from them before they start weaving back and forth across the line or tailgating *you*. And having a high, non-brittle tolerance for personal irritation towards "the One in every crowd -- the stupid person who can't drive" also helps.