> Oooooh boy. This is sticky. But from our human viewpoint, (A) and (B) are practically equivalent since, as you say, we have trouble conceiving of absolute perfect logic. That ceiling cannot been reached in everyday life, so it is difficult to imagine it using the logic of our limited, temporally-bound, and sequentially linear minds. (C) is a possibility, if the whole issue boils down to a question of semantics. It may be a failing of our language and communication in itself, one that forces us to express the need for absolutes and boundaries where none may exist with respect to "perfect logic". As an example, we find it possible to frame questions like, "Do colourless green ideas sleep furiously?" This statement is illogical and nonsensical. The fact remains, though, that the grammatical structure of English is flexible enough that such a bizarre question can actually be posed. Whereas in other languages, such as various Native American dialects, you could never say something like that. Such languages lose out on linguistic playfulness but may be less prone to the imprecision of subtle logic errors, or to miscommunication in everyday concepts.
>
> On the other hand, there is also the language of mathematics and Quantum physics (again). Paradoxically, these fields allow us to describe things which we can't imagine. What is curious in this case is that often the math itself forces conclusions about the Universe that no one had an inkling of beforehand. That's where Supersymmetry Theory gets the idea about there being 11 space-time dimensions (7 spatial, 1 macro-temporal, 3 quantum-temporal?) because that's what the math suggests! Of course, whether this is correct or not depends on the validity of the logical premises behind pure math.
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> Wolfspirit
>
> "Language puzzle: What if the entire concept of stuff existing 'Outside' the limits of the Universe is in itself a mathematical impossibility?"

I hope to be forgiven for not taking the time and thought to formulate a "real" response to these remarks, but my impulse at the moment is just to gush a little. So here goes:

I *love* reading posts by Wolfspirit. I learn something new just about every time she posts anything even slightly lengthy. What a great Forum this is, with the kind of participants we have!

There, end-of-gush.

Iss "next week: ethics as applied to the humane treatment of advanced artificial intelligences!" achar