First, I'd like to state that I'm not sure if anyone but myself will understand what I'm talking about, but I'll try. I know I probably won't make sense at times, but try to stay with me here.

> Now, here's a question for whomever cares to join in: is this limitation on logic something that is:
> a) intrinsic to logic, an inherent limitation of its powers, or
> b) a case of humans projecting the limitations of our own capacity to think and understand onto logic, which itself is *not* limited, or
> c) something else entirely? Is the whole issue a chimera?

Myself, I believe that logic is limited only by one's mental capacity. Logic is, in a sense, simply the science of pure and formal thought, and the only thing that limits thought is one's mental capacity. I believe that one of the primary reasons that logic is limited is becasue of years and years of social conditioning that tells us what *should* be, and thus tells us what is logical and illogical in our own minds. For example, if I say that 3+4=5 , is this a logical statement? It all depends on how you think about the question. Most of us believe that 3+4 must equal 7 becasue that is what was taught years and years ago, and therefore if the answer is not 7, it is wrong and therefore an illogical statement. As I said before though, this al depends on how the question is veiwed. Think of it like this: I walk 3 steps West and then walked 4 steps North. How many steps away from the starting location am I? Well, in this case, I walk 3 steps and then another 4 steps, but I am indeed 5 steps away from the start location, therefore 3+4 can equal 5.

> Here's another question: if you believe in God, do you think that God is bound by the rules of logic, or transcends logical categories and rules, or imposes a self-limitation under which God, although free from logical constraints in essence, obeys logic when dealing with creation?
> Here's my own 2 cents, as the question applies to the God of the Bible: God seems to follow logical rules rather than transcending them, yet those rules aren't "binding" on God in the sense of something external to his person. Rather, logic seems to be an expression of God's person, just as are love and righteousness. The way God presents his character in Scripture is quite logical in form: "I am this thing (good, just, active) and not that thing (wicked, capricious, enervate)." The way God expresses his own character "makes sense" in logical terms, because God includes logic as part of who he is. The ceiling we place on logical argument, I suppose, therefore reflects our own limited ability to understand, rather than the inability of logic in principle to illuminate God's being. (Of course, logic alone could not *entirely* define God for us, since God is many other things as well besides logic.)

Now my 2c. Applying this to the concept to if God is logical or not, I believe the answer must indeed be yes, however His logic may have elements that none of us could ever know or understand. Therefore, His logic may be interpreted by some to be illogical. Also, I believe that, if God does exist, He will obey the laws of logic when dealing with his creations. If this is so, then I would assume that he could only be true to those who believe that it is logical that suck a being could exist. This brings up the idea of faith. If one truely believes in God and thinks that such a thing is possible, then for that person God does exist, as the thought will dictate that persons actions in the world. Likewise, if one does not believe in God, then that person will not be dictated by God's logic and for that person, God does not exist, as that person would believe that God is an impossiblility and therefore God would not be a factor in what decisions that person makes.

Personally, I must say that I do not consider myself to be a truely religious person. I don't go to church, I don't pray, I don't read the Bible. Strangely enought though, I believe that there is, perhaps, an omnipotent being out there, however I do not believe that He dictates everything. As for the concept life after death, I must say I believe in Heaven and Hell. I can not believe that a person's subconscience just shuts off into nothing. As a result, I strive to do the best I can in life and only do what is morally correct, so therefore I can belive that God may exist. In the end though, when I leave this mortal coil, I believe that it will not be God that will judge me, but rather myself who will look back at my own life and decide my final resting place. Until that time though, I believe that the most important thing is to keep an open mind to the world.

>
> This is a refreshing idea for me, since I've characteristically downplayed logic as an appropriate tool for religious exposition. Now I need to think about how to admit the power of logic without lending support to people like physicist Frank Tipler, known for making bold claims like "in order to survive, theology must become a subset of physics." (_The _Physics_of_Immortality_)
> Iss "did I mention today is Vulcan Day?" achar

Myself, too. Now have a lot to think about. I don't think that I've ever confronted my thoughts about the universe like this before. It's amazing how powerful the virtue of thought is. In the end though, to answer my own qestion of what is logical and what is not in the grand sceme of things, I would have to say simply this:

I do not know.

-Ka"Now I've really got a lot to think about. Also, thanks to anyone who managed to stay with me for this long."z!